Teaching canter aids - right lead help still needed

[luxuria]

My Arab was pretty green when I got her. So was I.

When I got her, the only way I knew to get a horse to canter was to squeeze my legs at the trot and try to get them to go faster until they somehow change gaits.

She's never been taught a canter depart aid.

She knows voice commands pretty well. So on the lunge, she knows walk on, trot trot, and caan-terrrr but she's not 100% reliable from voice. But I'm still hoping the caan-terrr voice can help her figure out what I want.

Someone said to work them into a canter, outside leg back, inside leg on, and give the voice command.

Sometimes she'd do a nice depart and then break back to trot. I still praised for trying.
Sometimes she wouldn't do anything at all. (IOW, she'd just keep trotting)
And sometimes she'd do a canter depart and canter and I praised her like crazy.

Seems like it helps her canter if I start moving my body as if she's cantering.

Maybe I need to add whip to back up my leg?

I've never done much cantering on this horse. She was seriously unbalanced and I was too fearful.

Her balance is better, though her right lead is still sketchy, but I trust myself more and am now balanced myself -- hopefully enough to help her if she needs help.

But I think she thinks I must not want her to canter, since in the past, if she'd break from trot to canter, I'd correct her. And in 5 years of having her, I never asked for, or wanted more than 5 strides of canter from her.

She can also cross fire sometimes, and if she does that, I want to pull her back and then try the depart again.

I don't want to teach her that she only has to canter sometimes or that it's okay to do a depart and then trot.

I don't have mad skills though I've come a huge way since I started vaulting. Zahra has always been my green on green project horse and she's lived to tell the tale. (I've had to undo and redo a lot with her.)

I'm not in a position to hire a trainer or rider right now unless I found someone cheap. (Not likely.)

Can I do this myself?

I sure had fun trying today, but I wish I had more skills to ensure that every time I ask for a canter, I could insist on getting one.

She has a lot of try. (Though she also has a lot of stubborn! )

I've pretty much taught her everything she knows. Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

[redsoxluvr]

Have you tried the Magic Word? We always teach our horses to canter on the lunge, via the Magic Word. Then, we add it under saddle.

If you have a riding buddy who can lunge you, you could start out that way. I have a couple remedial projects that we are about to do that with. Wish us luck!

[kwitzi]

have you tried asking for canter from the walk? Surprisingly, some horses find it easier. Esp since you have a lot of baggage asking for it from trot.

Try getting a nice bright energetic walk. When you near a corner ( easier to ask for it on a bend to get correct lead), ask for canter with your seat, leg, and /or the canter word ( I also kiss and cluck with my greenie). she may take a few trot steps and canter on or canter on immediatly, anyway it is worth a try.

I found this out the hard way...my current horse, totally green, 3 months under saddle, takes canter depart easier form walk than from canter. My prior horse, in all time I owned him had trouble with canter depart from trot...he'd rush, launch into a fast canter etc. Finally, a trainer decided to let him canter from walk, and problem was solved.

After that, it was then easier to canter him from a trot ( don't run her into a canter from trot, get energetic contained trot, )

[luxuria]

In my OP, at one point I said canter, but meant I was taking her into a corner to try to ask for a depart.

I can't get her to w/c on the lunge, but never tried it under saddle. I wonder if I could get here to comprehend that transition on the lunge first.

Her departs were good when I could get them. Not rushy. Correct lead. But it was sporadic and I wasn't sure how many times to ask once we passed the corner and were still trotting.

I think I need to carry a whip so that if she gives a nice depart, I can keep her from downshifting again.

I'm having such a ball with her lately! I don't think I've ever enjoyed her as much as I have this last week.

[luxuria]

redsoxluvr, wish I had a lunge buddy for all kinds of reasons. But I don't.

I've been trying to teach Sundance's kid to lunge, but she's lacking sufficient skill to be trustworthy and safe. There really isn't anyone else around.

I think a whip to back up my aid, might help.

She generally wants to please and years ago, it took a whip for her to realize that I really, honestly, wanted her to trot on. This may be the same issue. Too many years of me telling her not to canter when I'm on her.

[redsoxluvr]

It is hard to reintroduce the canter after it has been off the "menu" for awhile- ask me how I know. : (

Start with it on the lunge - I think that would be simplest. There is an easy exercise where you come down centerline, then leg yield to the rail. Immediately, ask for canter. ( You should be in the corner as well.) Canter for the length of the long side, back to trot for once around then do it again. You will have a bigger chance of being successful, as the leg yield to corner helps set them up really well. Once she gets it, you can add a row of cavelletti. Leg yield to caveletti, trot over them then canter straight away. It really helps to get the back half working. I would be hesitant to do this exercise first, as I wouldn't want to fill her brain up too much at first. It comes up thick and fast - if she is tense it will make it worse.

Hope this helps.

[pony1]

You've got some other stuff going on you haven't told us about yet. Like, why is it you only canter a few strides? is it that you don't have any place level or without tree roots and you feel like your Arab is going to trip? Is it that your horse is too strong and you don't think you can stop?
First, teach the voice aids. Canter means canter. do it a lot on the lunge. do it some more.
get to some clear open area, arena, whatever, but where the footing is not scaring you or your horse.
ask for a canter. one leg (one of your legs) back. ask for one lead. you may not get it. no hassle. canter on and turn so you are cantering in the direction of the lead you haphazardly got, kuz you horse at least gave you canter and you want to reward that, no punishment by immediately pulling down. canter on! enjoy! pat, stroke, praise and reward yourself too!
repeat.
it only gets better.
horses like to canter!

[luxuria]

Redsox, my big question is, what if I do that (down center, leg yield to the rail) and then ask for the depart and she doesn't do it? Do I ask again? Or start again? If I ask again and she still doesn't, then what?

She would love the caveletti exercise if she can relax. She likes things that occupy her brain with something other than monsters.

[luxuria]

Pony, I think I've been fuzzy in my communication, so let me back up a little.

I used to only ask her for a few strides of canter, because I had horrible fear issues. So, I'd get scared and pull her up.

She's a hot horse that I had no business buying at the time I bought her.

I think that past history taught her that I didn't really want her to canter with me on her.

Fast forward to now. 3 months of vaulting lessons, 3 years past the riding accident that caused the fear, and I'm feeling good about my riding my Hanoverian, but decide to start riding my Arab again. She has pretty much sat around for probably a year. And I'm not the same rider I was a year ago.

So I now realize I have a horse that doesn't know much about cantering with a human on her back. And she's now 11 years old. It's time to change this.

She doesn't get strong in the bridle. She has other evasions. I've never had problems stopping her, even from a bolt. We have good footing and two nice, level arenas.

She knows her voice aids but is rusty. We practiced on the lunge 3 days this week and it seems her brain is coming back.

The main issue is, if I ask for a canter, and she doesn't canter, then what? Keep asking??

ask for a canter. one leg (one of your legs) back. ask for one lead. you may not get it. no hassle. canter on and turn so you are cantering in the direction of the lead you haphazardly got,

That's assuming I got her to canter at all!



I actually think we made progress today. And I feel pretty sure that part of the solution will be a tap with the whip to back up my leg, if needed.

In some ways, I've been down this path with her before, except it wasn't cantering.

p.s. she more than loves to canter. She's built for speed. I wish I were built for speed. She is wicked fast, but has horrible form in turnout.

[kwitzi]

i'ts kind of a messy question ( and I'm no expert, just trying too, but had similar issues...) as it's a chicken and egg question, is it fair to keep "asking", if you are asking incorrectly, ( or in a way that is not setting her up for a good depart).

In general, I'd say yes, use whip to back up leg. But before just jumping to that, I'd think the depart through, and settle on how and where you are going to ask for it. Re as she is responding to seat aid to canter, I'd do some seat aid along with legs. Decide if she canters, for now, better from a slow contained trot, a fast trot, or a walk ( experiment a couple of times from a walk, then see what happens)

Once you decide on the best canter aid adk method, ( including a voice aid or kiss or cluck, whatever works for now) then yes, when you ask her, and she does not respond, back it up with a light whip aid behind leg, or a crop aid at the shoulder on the leg you want to lead. On my greenie I am using crop on shoulder and it works just fine.

You have to experiment. If one thing doesn't work well, the next day, try another thing. re if she responds to dressage whip at your leg, then that is your backup aid if she does not canter off from leg and seat. But if that is too much for her or she doesn't respond, then the next day try a crop on her shoulder instead.

re asking for strike offs, in young horses and as she is remedial she is being trained like a young horse, in beginning, it helps to ask for canter depart in the same place in the arna every time ( obviously within a few weeks you will change that) Asking from the same place gives her a comfort zone and will focus both of you.

Set up a cone or marker in a corner. ask for canter from that spot. If she doesn't respond, back up with whip or crop etc. If she doesn't strike off, then stop asking, go around arena or make a circle, come back to the cone or marker, and ask again from that spot.

( in depart, check your hands that they are soft enough parti inside hand that it gives her some room and same for outside hand outside shoulder can't be blocked. you don't want loose reins either so it it a bit of a feel ).

[pony1]

What about getting a friend to lunge her for you, and then let you get on as a passenger at first?

[luxuria]

I have sooo many reasons why I wish I had a lunge friend. But I don't. In my neighborhood, there's only one woman I know that I'd even trust to lunge my horse but if I asked to trade lunge time, she'd probably not be up for it. (Translation: I'd be happy for her to lunge my horse, but don't think she'd be happy to lunge mine.)

OTOH, out of my neighborhood, maybe I do know a person or two who might love to change some lunge time.

[pony1]

Reading your post over again, I'm wondering if you "taught" your mare to halt from a canter back when you were afraid and would get tense. Tension from your seat (or stiffened hands, or tightness through your back, or where ever it was you had your fear express itself) now means to her "stop." Or maybe she thinks "canter" means "canter only a few strides and then stop." So, relax, take a deep breath and sit very still when you ask her to canter, more like the nice relaxed way you would ask her for a trot. Focus your eyes on a place at least 7 strides away and say to yourself "we're going to canter just that far." This is in addition to all the other good advice you've been given. Tap in the shoulder, as said above. get those first canter strides. Then much praise. Next time you can ask for more.
Riding with a buddy horse who has a quiet canter, out on a trail, when everybody is relaxed and in a good mood, and maybe up a slight incline to help her get her butt under her, all would be a low-key way to reintroduce canter.

[luxuria]

Reading your post over again, I'm wondering if you "taught" your mare to halt from a canter back when you were afraid and would get tense. Tension from your seat (or stiffened hands, or tightness through your back, or where ever it was you had your fear express itself) now means to her "stop." Or maybe she thinks "canter" means "canter only a few strides and then stop." So, relax, take a deep breath and sit very still when you ask her to canter, more like the nice relaxed way you would ask her for a trot. Focus your eyes on a place at least 7 strides away and say to yourself "we're going to canter just that far." This is in addition to all the other good advice you've been given. Tap in the shoulder, as said above. get those first canter strides. Then much praise. Next time you can ask for more.
Riding with a buddy horse who has a quiet canter, out on a trail, when everybody is relaxed and in a good mood, and maybe up a slight incline to help her get her butt under her, all would be a low-key way to reintroduce canter.

Pony1, yes, you are exactly right. Canter to her means, "for a few strides", though that is a separate issue from her not understanding a canter depart aid.

The latter isn't something she's ever seemingly been taught.

The former is my own doing.

I'm sure I can unteach the latter. But I'm looking into paying someone to teach her the depart aids and her leads. She's smart and picks things up fast. And a more nuanced rider is likely to get there much faster than I can without as many false starts.

[pony1]

Maybe start canter in a straight line. Go as far as you can. Try to tell her trot before she breaks of her own accord. Don't go back to walk, make her trot on for a while. At least you're going, not stopping.
Give her the aids for one lead or another, but only try for canter, not a particular lead.
Arabians can have strenght issues that interfere with canter departs, and problems such as, short croup, low set neck (there is a school horse here like that). balance at the canter is hard for them. so maybe try only straight lines at canter.
It will come for you. Really.

[luxuria]

Haven't been able to get her to canter at all!

But she was super marey yesterday and I had no chance to ride her today.

As far as trot, she can trot forever. And I loffs her trot!

[pony1]

Does she just trot faster? If so, practice going from fast trot back to slow trot, from fast trot back to walk, then trot again. Back and forth. Is she balky against your leg when you ask for trot? Get her going so she knows leg means go. Back and forth. Then, when she's in a slow trot and listening to you, ask for can-teerr, like you've been doing on the lunge. then cue with you legs. and tap her shoulder. if she doesn't canter for you, don't race around at a burrowing trot, all on her forehand like she's a wheelbarrow. slow down again. get all your knitting back in a ball. then ask again, like you mean it. still doesn't work? get off and lunge her til you get a canter. get back on and try again. This is young horse stuff, greenies. No big deal. It'll come.

[pony1]

Old Chinese proverb: Try again. Fail better.

[luxuria]

We have massive wind warnings so no riding until the weather settles down.

She generally trots like a metronome as long as the human stays out of her way (is balanced0, but if I ask for canter, she's acting confused. I'm not sure if she's trotting faster. Definitely bulky.

In the Obs Lounge (haha, almost typed Obs Lunge), I mentioned I'm working with her and an old cowboy. I haven't seen him lunge yet, but he does not free lunge, he lunges with a line (seems unusual for a cowboy.) If he lunges in a good way, the answer may be for him to lunge her while I'm on her, to get her to canter.

I don't think she's trying to be bad. She's confused about what I want. I've shut down her canter too much in the past.

I'll bet the light bulb moment comes fast. But it seems like I could use a bit of assistance from an outside person to get past this speed bump in the road.

If the cowboy doesn't work out, I have some other options I've thought of. My vaulting teacher could do what I need. (Lunge her with me on her), and I have two local dressage acquaintances who might also be willing to help.

[SnowHorse]

Do you carry a riding crop/bat when you ride? (Not a whip - it's better if it's short and has a leather "flap" in the end)

Ride her in relaxed trot - do NOT let her trot faster, but keep the tempo the same. As you give her the canter aids use the crop on the outside, touch/tap her towards the croup. She needs to step into the canter from a balanced trot and the job of the bat is to tell her to lift that hind leg and set it down - your strike into the canter. If she doesn't do it, keep the trot the same and try again, you may have to tap her more than once. Do NOT hang on her face, give her room.

It will be easier if you have access to a round pen, but it's not a necessity. In a bigger arena ask for the canter when you're approaching a corner - not when you're IN the corner - and remember to leave her enough room to balance - no smaller than a 20m circle, larger is better, if you have room.

Good luck!

[kwitzi]

A suggestion...

Re teach her a really solid canter depart from the lunge, along with a voice command or kissy sound.

If possible, place a cone in the arena, and ask her on the lunge line to depart to canter at the cone. That combined with voice aid will be a clear reminder to her. when she is confirmed at cone, ask in other areas of the circle.

when she has it down pat, try the same under saddle. set up a cone in corner of arena. use the kissy sound or voice command and ask for canter with best aids possible ( you might, as you said, need some instruction for that). when she canters reliably at same place and with voice aid, ( give lavish praise, and even if canter is rushed or on wrong lead, let her canter, that can be corrected over time). when she canters reliably to your aid you can start asking from other places besides the cone, and eventually phase out the voice signal.

[luxuria]

Cowboy is coming tomorrow and the weather should be agreeable.

Snowhorse, I could use a bat. Never have but I could get one. I've been asking IN the corner. Why do you think a roundpen would be better? I have one.

Kwitzi, if the cowboy can't help, that sounds like a good plan I can do alone.

[galopp]

The best place to ask for the canter (on the lunge and undersaddle) is as the horse has just crossed the centeline (hh/hh) and depart right before the wall (as the horse is still on the 45 degrees to the wall). Very few horses will 'impale' themselves with the outside foreleg and almost all will strike off correctly. Once the horse is parellel to the wall it is to later.

Going into a corner is ok, but you only have one chance. By doing it as above you have the wall, and the corner if fhe first attempt fails.

There are times (shhhh, dont tell anyone) that one might actually counterbend the horse as well at the above moment (in the beginning).

But NEVER run the horse into canter. Ask and tap with a BAT (SOUND not strength) at the same time (or ask and chirp with the voice)....but TIMING is KEY. Then sustain it for a circle, walk, and rinse/repeat. IF you can do it 3 times it IS a learned behavior.

[kwitzi]

Looking forward to hearing how Cowboy did with her!

[luxuria]

It's kind of windy.

Not too windy to ride my hano, but possibly too windy to ride Zahra.

Haven't heard from the cowboy yet, but I'm going to hop on her and check out her mood.

She also seems to be in super-mean-I'm-in-heat mode. She kicked the crap out of my poor Hano this morning.

[luxuria]

GAHHHH!! I wish I could seriously cuss on this board.

She CLOCKED ME.

Out of nowhere.

She has never offered to kick me or even shown a sign of thinking about it. And she effin' clocked me!!

Despite the fact that I may need to go to the hospital, I got up, get after her and made her scared that i was going to kill her.

And limped back into the house.

Holy crap she got me good.

Can I cry now??

[kwitzi]

that's awful, very sorry to hear that and hope u are okay!

[luxuria]

We CANTERED!!!!!

We've been working a lot on the lunge for the first time in ages, working on voice aids.

I had a bat.

I used my voice, my seat, my bat, and pushed her into what was actually a very decent, balanced canter on her easier (left) lead.

We did a full circle. And then we did it again. I think she "gets" it. Her light bulb moments are so cute.

She still doesn't know the aid. But what she's figured out is YES, I really do want her to canter, and I really DO want her to do it for more than a few strides.

The rest should be easy. Just keep pairing leg with voice, seat, bat if needed. And then start getting rid of bat and voice.

I suspect the right lead will be trickier. She has a harder time with balance on her right lead, so rider + her own problems might be tricky. I hope I have enough of my own balance to help her. I think I do. But....this level of skill is still not fully confirmed for me. So, wish me luck!

OTOH, if I can canter on a horse backwards or sideways (vaulting), surely I can canter my mare on her right lead.

[pony1]

Hurray!

[kwitzi]

happy dance!

[SnowHorse]

Great!!


How big is your round pen? If you're not sure about her picking the right lead (going right) you might want to do it in the round pen first. The wall will help her to pick the right lead (like galopp said in her post) - in a round pen you just don't need to worry about where you are in the arena, you have the wall right there all the time. It's like a crutch and you'll have to confirm it (picking the correct lead to the right, too) again in the big arena, but for the first times it would help a little.

However, don't do it in a round pen that is too small (less than 20m across), it will be harder for her to maintain balance.

[vkitty]

OTOH, if I can canter on a horse backwards or sideways (vaulting), surely I can canter my mare on her right lead.

[/quote]

[luxuria]

We have two roundpens. The one is GIANT. Too big for cowboy stuff. But great for new riders, new horses, or anything else that needs a controlled environment. I'd guess it's about twice as big as a "cowboy" rp.

And in fact, that's where I cantered her yesterday (more because everything else was being used), never thought of how much the rail helps. And maybe that is why I had such good success yesterday compared to the big arena I've been working her in. (Not the dressage arena either....big enough to probably do 40m circles, so it's nice to have a bunch of room with her.)

Seems like maybe we should work in that roundpen for a bit longer.

The small normal-sized rp, seems too small even for a small horse like her.

[redsoxluvr]

WELL DONE!!!

[luxuria]

So, now I'm not sure if I have the cowboy help me with her, or sic him on my Hano's ground manners!

[luxuria]

So with horses, it seems every leap forward is followed by ten steps back.

I could not get her to canter under saddle today.

There was way more than the usual activity in the riding areas today, with cars, children, screaming horses, galloping, screaming 2yo colt, dogs, etc.

Given that has been a past recipe for my horse to be unrideable, I guess we did pretty well today. We had a decent, but not exceptional ride. Given the chaos, that means we did great!

I took lots of time to just get her to relax. But it seemed like every time she'd chill, some New Thing would happen, her head would come again, and we'd have to start with asking her to relax all over again.

I finally got her chilled and asked for a canter.

She fell onto her forehand, trotting faster and faster.

Pulled her up.

Tried asking for canter from walk. I don't think she even gets the concept. Can't get her to try on the lunge either.

Question....

IF she goes into a faster forehand trot, should I keep asking for canter, or pull her up and try again?

Under the theory of successive approximations, it seems like if she comes into a forehand canter, at least she'd start to get the idea. OTOH, I really would like her to be able to get a balanced depart and if she's rushing around like that, it's not possible.

So, ask until she canters? Or rebalance her and then ask again?

[SnowHorse]

Do *NOT* let her run into canter - she needs to step into it, and she CAN do it, you just need patience with it. Do what you did last time - round pen, quiet trot, your canter aids, your BAT, and off you go. It's not really *that* huge a deal, trust her to do it and she will. Canter once around, walk her a little and then repeat. Just keep your cool, it will come. It is good to do it two or three times, it will help her understand what you're after - like galopp said - after three times it's a learned behavior.

Better yet if you can do the same to the other direction, too - remember the old rule " always do everything both directions".



My mare used to be a lot like yours (guess what, she's an Ayrab, too ), tense, wanting to take over and forget about me and put all her attention to everything else around. When she was green there was NO riding her if it was a very windy day, either. We have come a long, long way, and she has taught me SO much, and even the worst windy days (30+mph) are not a problem any more - haven't been in years. She has learned to chill out, especially at home she's *very* good. Just sayin'.... I know where you're coming from and I know you CAN get past this

[pammy]

Agree: don't let her run into canter or you're going to train her to do this and she will simply fall into a hell-bent on the forehand canter.

Lux, are you sure she's OK behind to canter? Didn't she have rear leg issues? That could be a big part of it~ especially if you can't now get her to canter on the longe. If she's at all sore in a hock or stifle, she won't be able to carry herself in canter and for sure not from the walk~ that takes a hell of a lot of strength on the outside hind to strike off.

[kwitzi]

agree with my limited experience ( still working on this myself ) with the above two posts, not to run her into canter even though it is tempting to get it any old way. re pammy has a point to check out any medical issues...I still think my original advice is worth a try, re to set up a cone or other marker she can see in a spot in arena and also on lunge and only ask for canter at that spot till her canter departs are really solid, then of course move the cone and ask in diff spots and then eventually elimate cone. Imo it will give her ( and you) a clear place to ask for it and reassure her as she has so much baggage with canter. It will help clarify for you as well...in other words, when you approach the cone, set up going into a corner or curve, half halt or gather her to balance her, and ask once or twice for canter. If she does not depart into it, then bring her back to trot or walk, and then go around again , or make a circle, and ask again at the cone. Over and over, at the cone, till she understands that is the place she should depart. re as she sounds confused ( unless it is a medical issue). I also would not ask on a very windy or crazy day under saddle. best of luck with it you are very persistent which is to be admired!

[WhyWalk]

Do you trail ride? Its a lot easier to get a horse to canter outside of the arena. I know some people are afraid but the horses seem to pick it up a lot easier and you can just get in a half seat and go. If you have washes there, that is the PERFECT place!

[luxuria]

pammy, yes, your memory has not failed you. This horse has some hind weakness, but she vets clean, flexes clean, and has never shown any signs of pain. At one time, it led to much cross firing and lead swapping. Those problems are pretty much fixed, but I still see some evidence of weakness in the form of an intermittent and slight "lateness" of the left hind when on the right lead.

The problem is subtle rather than easily noticed. But the cowboy sees it too, so I know I'm not making it up.

She canters fine on the lunge, esp on her left lead. She's less balanced on the right. But I don't think any of that is related to the canter issues. I believe she was never really trained to canter under saddle and my past history with her, hasn't helped.

WhyWalk, I've taken her out on trails for the first time last spring. But that was a big dose of brave on my part. And I had a very experienced trail/Arab/endurance rider with me. In general, I can't get to trails and am nervous trail riding her as she can spook hard.

Snowhorse and Kwitzi, yes, I'm going to do those things.

[luxuria]

We had a wonderful ride today!

Tacking her up, she started pinning her ears and stomping her hooves. Uh-oh! Wondered about not riding her, but it's a beautiful, fall, crisp day. Decided to finish tacking her.

Put her on the lunge and she seemed to be in a good mood, so no clue what the pissy fest was about.

Rode her in the giant round pen. Could not get a canter.

Decided to try by acting as if there were a corner, despite being in a round pen.

Success!!! Decent depart. Decent canter.

We cantered a bunch of circles, went back to a trot, and tried again without turning her. No go.

So I went back to what worked and washed, rinsed, repeated.

We seem to have acquired some consistency for the left lead. Still need more work on the right.

But it was a nice ride and she's being such a good girl!

[SnowHorse]

I don't know how I missed your update, but congratulations on the wonderful ride!
I think you're starting to figure her out - and it'll get better it just takes work!


My mare used to have a pattern years ago -- if she was pissy while tacking her up, she was an angel under saddle. If she was an angel while tacking up, she was pissy under saddle. I never figured out what the deal was, but eventually she grew out of it. Little Mares..... gotta love 'em

[luxuria]

I know mares are known for being moody, but she's the only mare I've ever had and the only one I've really known. And she IS moody. I often wonder how much is really cycles and how much is just her.

My geldings are so much easier.

Sundance doesn't really have moods at all. So long as he's feeling well, he's just his usual self, all the time.

Danny's moods are either: 1) playful; 2) bored; 3) tense (and the latter is not common)

Zahra's moods are all over the place. Happy. Pissy. Grumpy. Resistant. Interested. Excited. Nervous. Tense. Jubilant. etc.

But in all of the years that I've owned my mare, we've never had a wonderful partnership under saddle. She scared me a lot. And even once I figured out that I find her predictable under saddle, she still scared me because she can be so tense.

I'm finally relaxed with her. And even when she's tense, I'm relaxed.

And a cycle of trust and relaxation is finally building.

It's taken us YEARS to get here. She may finally be "the right horse for me."

I spent all of our early years being overhorsed with her.

Once we get this canter thing down, I think our possibilities are really open. I may start her in a new activity once we have the canter fully down -- maybe something "go fast", like barrels or gymkhana. The girl is built for speed IF she can do speed and not turn into a freaked out tension monster.

Love my mare.

[kwitzi]

good to hear!

[luxuria]

So, we're doing great with the left lead. We don't need any tricks to get her to upshift to the left.

But to the right? I can't get her to canter.

I'm trying all of the tricks that worked for the left but all she does is trot faster.

She is less balanced to the right. I'm sure the strike off is harder for her.

The only thing I can think to do is get someone over to lunge us.

[Zevida]

Have you tried a cavaletti or a small jump? If you can get her to land in the canter and build strength just cantering, that will probably help with the transition into canter.

[luxuria]

I can try cavaletti. Results may be entertaining.

We've done ground poles and she seemed to like it after figuring out it wouldn't eat her.

I may try it at about 6" tomorrow.

[palatoso]

My mare was/is like this too...and she's half arab.

She is not very big so it's like riding a very fast pony, she's approx. 14.3hh.

Trot -canter has always been about trying to slow her down, she gets so anxious when I ask for the first canter transitions and yes, they are fast but only the first 2 or 3 now,then she calms down and does beautiful balanced transitions with me only 'thinking' canter and basically doing very little maybe just a click of the tongue.
She's 7 now but still trying very hard to please, she gets so worried, I had the vet check her lungs and heart as she's always breathing fast too. Conclusion was just anxiety,so I try to ride keeping her relaxed but those damned canter transitions come up sooner or later. She's an absolute sweetheart to ride, never done anything bad, but very anxious about what I might ask of her. Don't know why as we are certainly not doing much for a 7 yr. old We're way behind most of you I would think. Walk, trot, canter and a bit of leg yielding.

[kwitzi]

a few ideas ( may be repeating some u already have)
turn her head slightly to outside when ask for right lead to free up her shoulder, and give forward with ubsude hand. had similar problem with my greenie and am finally getting better right lead departs...If I ask for a series of trot/walk transitions before I ask,, like 10 steps trot,, then 10 wall, trot ten steps, walk ten steps, back to trot and then ask for canter. They are more underneath you then and alive to aids.

re if you aid for canter and she just trots faster, make sure her trot is energetic and fast before you ask for canter .

That way you direct the pace, , rather than starting froma medium trot, and you know she is just going to trot faster and faster. MAke her trot faster, and don't ask her for canter till she is trotting brisk and strong. She sounds too weak right now to canter from a slow trot, so might as well control things and ask for a fast/brisk/energtic trot, then aide to canter out of that.

later, when is stronger and balanced, the trot won't have to be quite so fast of course!

Another subtle thing, and I just found this after years of riding ( doh, I am a slow learner sometimes), anyway, what I found helps with a tense horse ( with any horse I suppose), is a shift in the timing, of how you ask them to respond.

In other words, now, do you aid for for something, and keep the aid applied till you get a response ? ( re, you want her to trot from walk, so you use your leg and keep it on till she trots? and when you want her to slow down, you use downward aide such as reins and keep the aid on till she slows down?

if you have been doing that, try this instead:

Give the aid, but release it, BEFORE she responds. And just be passive and wait a moment, and most likely, she will do what you asked for. But by releasing and giving her a chance to repsond, everything feels softer and slower ( even though it is maybe one or two moments)

It is much more polite, like asking somebody a question and giving them a moment to answer. RE if you want her to go from walk to trot, use your legs, then release before she trots, and a moment later, she will trot, almost like she thougth of it. IF she doesn't, give the aid, release, and wait a moment or two and give her a chance to trot.

How it relates to canter, you may be giving the upward/right lead aid, and expecting her to react, and holding the aid there, which just makes nervous and makes her run fater and faster.

Get her in the bright strong trot, give the aid ( maybe along with a cluck or kiss), in any event, give the aid, and then release it, and wait. Keep your seat on her and give her a chance to pick up the canter. If she doesn't, repeat. This will give her the moment to process what you want , repeated often enough, she will canter from it.