Parelli and helmets, just wow

[Quelah]

My apologies if this has been posted before, but wow, the mind boggles.

Forwarded from another list.
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Parelli and helmets

I am sending this to a couple different groups as I feel it is important to get the word out to potential Parelli followers. As many of you know, I am currently recovering from a brain injury from a fall from a horse this summer. This was a green horse but he spooked while I was getting off, something any horse could do and the odds of a serious accident on a horse finally caught up with me. One thing I have noticed is an ad for Parelli and Linda is jumping a horse bareback and no helmet. Also while I was bedridden I watch a couple of his episodes and he had a a young person who was physically disabled riding without a helmet and it was obvious her balance was not good. I sent a letter to Parellis asking them to please advocate the use of helmets. This is their reply, which I think is totally STUPID coming from professionals.

Patti - w.wa

Hi Patti,

Thank you for taking the time to write us. We understand your views and concerns. As quoted by the faculty at our ranch:

"You are quite right - helmets are fabulous things and they save many lives. Tragically though, people who ARE wearing helmets also die or suffer serious head injuries in accidents with horses.

Our program is intended to address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it. Our message is about developing the relationship with the horse, and the savvy level of the rider, so that unsafe behavior is addressed long before the rider gets on the horse - rather than allowing the unsafe situations to continue to occur and hope that the helmet, body protector, etc, will protect us from the consequences.

The reason you do not see our people wearing helmets is because we try to teach people that rather than be brave because they are wearing a a helmet to protect them, they would be better off not riding until their horse is behaving safely.

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

We hope this helps,

From the Faculty, Parelli Centers"

[cornbread]

People have called us brave for not wearing helmets, but we say they are a lot braver than we are. We would not get on their horse until we had addressed the issues that cause it to behave in unsafe ways.

Famous last words.

[svvdressage]

Ok, I will admit I don't alway ride with a helmet, but I know I SHOULD. Do they think that there horses don't ever trip? You can fall off for a 100 other reasons other than your horse misbehaving!

[HelenBrew]

It's lucky you can buy the Parelli Anti-Tripping or Falling Cucumber Stick to carry with you always for safety...and for just $199 plus shipping and handling.

[theredhead]

I find this +truly+ frightening. I don't think I could even begin to explain what it takes to learn to walk, talk, and be a human being again in the face of such willful ignorance.

-the redhead-
...survivor...

[cornbread]

I know a fair number of people who don't ride in helmets (which I believe is a personal choice) and they all acknowledge that there's risk involved. I don't believe I've ever heard any of them say that they've trained their horses never to "behave in unsafe ways".

[drowned n cold 6c legs]

sooo, they are basically blaming the victim, telling her it was HER fault HER HORSE dumped HER... that's classy.





since they have the word "faculty" in their name - they must be correct. >sneer<

[Alex]

I think everyone should write the Parellis. That letter is beyond ridiculous in its concept and in its conclusion about just how reliablly a savvy horseperson can be entirely protected from equine accidents. They should be justifiably proud of *reducing* the number (though 'likelihood' is probably a more accurate noun to use) of accidents if that is what happens because of their training, but to suggest accidents never, ever occur out of the blue.... Eeeek!

[theredhead]

Actually, this makes me angry (a state I normally try to avoid).

I think perhaps they might benefit from personally experiencing the 2 years of torture I went through to recover from my horse accident.

The unmitigated gall they have to spew this sort of BS is nigh on unimaginable.

I'd send them or their minions a copy of my 'beauty shot' if I thought it would help.

I wonder how much liability they will bear when one of their worshippers +does+ suffer a severe TBI. Do you think they'd be willing to pay for it?

I'll have NO sympathy when one of the Parelli's suffers a head injury.

-the redhead-

[avma]

wow, that's horrible! I had a friend who's horse just tripped and fell. Thank god she had her helmet on...and even then she had a slight concussion! I mean...what about cyclists? Have they not trained their bicycles well enough to behave properly? And that's why they wear helmets? What a completely odd and moronic thing to say!

[S~Maximus]

Yes this is quite nutso.

It is one thing to not wear a helmet. It is another to take this totally misdirected pompous attitude to the whole affair, suggesting everyone not on your program is "brave" for getting on their own non-Parelli trained horses???

Pull the stick out.

[Musicdoc]

Oh, this makes me furious!!

I had a severe head injury, as most of you know, when I fainted from anemia 3 summers ago and hit the ground at a dead drop from my 16.1 mare. I was walking around trees in our back pasture, practicing lateral movements. So my head hit the ground from about 7 1/2 feet up in the air. The horse stopped; she didn't do anything wrong. If I hadn't had my helmet on, I would either be dead or in a nursing home; I surely wouldn't be writing this now, as I would be a vegetable. This is not excited statements from some hypochondriac idiot, this is what my friend who is a cancer surgeon told me after he saw the damage to my Troxel helmet. He said, quite frankly, that the helmet saved my life. And then he proceeded to explain to me all the medical things that did happen to me, because I had a helmet on, and all the nasty ones that didn't, also because I had a helmet on. So I avoided burial and cremation and feeding tubes.

Yes, we should all let Parelli, et al, know what we think. BTW, in my post on the farrier thread about my neighbor's horse, I did put in a wisecrack about the "carrot stick whip." Yuck. Paying a lot of $ for bs.

So I wonder what kind of "stick" Parelli would sell to me so that I could protect myself from, well, myself? The horse was not at fault; my lack of iron in my blood was. Is there an Iron Stick? Should I eat it? I guess they also don't recommend wearing seatbelts in cars and trucks. If your cars and trucks are properly trained, according to their "faculty," then you will NEVER have a wreck. So you can dispense with seatbelts, and airbags, and antilock brakes, and....just think about how much $ you could make selling all that useless stuff on ebay.

Parelli makes me sick. Is there a stick for that?

[Musicdoc]

Yes, we should all let Parelli, et al, know what we think. BTW, in my post on the farrier thread about my neighbor's horse, I did put in a wisecrack about the "carrot stick whip." Yuck. Paying a lot of $ for bs.

So I wonder what kind of "stick" Parelli would sell to me so that I could protect myself from, well, myself? The horse was not at fault; my lack of iron in my blood was. Is there an Iron Stick? Should I eat it? I guess they also don't recommend wearing seatbelts in cars and trucks. If your cars and trucks are properly trained, according to their "faculty," then you will NEVER have a wreck. So you can dispense with seatbelts, and airbags, and antilock brakes, and....just think about how much $ you could make selling all that useless stuff on ebay.

Parelli makes me sick. Is there a stick for that?

I tried to edit my above post to add this, but PC was not happy. I'll try again.

Wups, guess it went through after all. (But if I hadn't saved it, it would have disappeared, don'tchaknow)

[luxuria]

I'm skeptical by nature. And when something seems too nutso to be true, I'm not so quick to jump in to believe it.

I'd sure like a verified source on this.

It's either totally insane or....an evil internet rumor.

Honestly, it smells like the latter. Doubt it's on snopes though.

[Jacquero]

Hate to know what these people pay in insurance premiums.....

[Amadeus]

Hate to know what these people pay in insurance premiums.....

Specially when the insurance comapny reads this twaddle!!

I love the bicycle analogy, works so well.

[whip]

I'm with luxuria with this one. Anyone care to try writing them personally and see what comes back? This smells fishy, like someone is trying to stir the waters. If I'm wrong, then I'm on the same bandwagon.

[RebelsHope]

I'm with luxuria with this one. Anyone care to try writing them personally and see what comes back? This smells fishy, like someone is trying to stir the waters. If I'm wrong, then I'm on the same bandwagon.

I agree. I have a hard time believing that a professional would write something actually saying that they did not believe in wearing helmets.

Doubt it's on snopes though.

This was my first thought too . . . .

[carolprudm]

I'm with luxuria with this one. Anyone care to try writing them personally and see what comes back? This smells fishy, like someone is trying to stir the waters. If I'm wrong, then I'm on the same bandwagon.

I agree. I have a hard time believing that a professional would write something actually saying that they did not believe in wearing helmets.

Doubt it's on snopes though.

This was my first thought too . . . .

Many if not most Western professionals don't wear helmets

[Tarlo Farm]

Good point. Incredible, incredibly irresponsible if true.

[sabella]

You know, Parelli didn't train his own horse. The horse came to him finished. He tells his acolytes the opposite.

[Missy]

I am surpirised since I heard throught the grapevine that Linda Parlli was just thrown and ended up inthe hosital with some broken bones. I wonder if this letter was written before or after that incident.

http://shareparelli.com/node/4385

[knitabaycolt]

While I agree, this should probably be verified before we get too up in arms over it, the overall 'tone' certainly sounds Parelli-like to me.

and this:

address the safety problem at its root - which is behavioral - rather than address the symptoms of it

reminds me of this notion they seem to have that horses are all basically alike, fit neatly into four or so little food groups, and can be programmed (if not by force, than by their very detailed, expensive-to-learn, and UN-natural NH curriculum) to be PERFECT.

Not good. Not fair to the horse.

[knitabaycolt]

and what is a photonic therapy torch? Are they selling those, too?

[angela9823]

You know, Parelli didn't train his own horse. The horse came to him finished. He tells his acolytes the opposite.

Which horse of his came finished? The stallion that bucked everyone off? He DOES tell everyone that his black mare came to him finished. And that was why he wanted her. She had some spooking issues but other than that she was a finished horse that he wanted. Otherwise he tells everyone that the students start his horses (the young ones he rides). I've sat through three of his clinics now and not ONCE did he say that he started any of the horses that he rides in those clinics. He says he doesn't have time and that is how he (or other trainers) now teach the students-with his young horses or other people's volunteered horses.

[saltheart]

"...that Linda Parlli was just thrown..."

Thanks, Missy. That makes my day. Now, had she been critically injured or killed I wouldn't be so snarky, but the thrown part just makes me smile. What goes around, comes around.

Salty

[FlyingLily]

We should be sure the letter is really associated with the Parelli enterprise before running with this.

I am as skeptical as Luxuria, if for no other reason than thinking Parellis are savvy about liability and even remotely appearing to endorse riding without a helmet would be risky of lawsuits.

[carolprudm]

and what is a photonic therapy torch? Are they selling those, too?

Of course
http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?productId=222

There is a link to another website where you can buy it from the manufacturer. If you go to their contact page it lists Parelli as the only dealer/distributer.

[ZenasGirl]

I think what the Parelli's mean to say is that if you work with their methods you won't ride anymore, anyway.

There is a Parelli-endorsed "natural" barn in our area. From what I have seen, none of them ride. Even some pretty normal people I know that have started Parelli training have stopped riding altogether.

I will also say that there are some very good things in their program. I did work with one of their trainers on ground work with my yearling to teach boundaries. The technique was exactly what we needed at the time. At age 3, we started him under saddle, and we ride regularly. And yes, I always wear a helmet!

[kwitzi]

Quelah, I really think you should take this post down. It is very inflamatory toward the parellis and you have no proof they ever wrote it. If you read your "letter", it is signed, "From the Faculty of the Parelli Centers" First of all, there is not a signature of a person, so neither Pat nor Linda wrote it, signed it or endorsed it.

Who the heck is the "faculty of the Parelli Centers"? If you bothered to read or watch any of their material, they never refer to "Parelli Centers", that phrase alone should have given you a clue that this is a fake. I used to get their savvy newsletrer which addressed reader's questions, either Pat or Linda signed and answered, never "faculty of the Parelli Centers", ( right, like all the presidents of bank of Nigeria emails are real too)

It is true they post photos of people not wearing helmets, then the dressae community is equal to blame...every issue of DT shows photos of trainers without helmets and dressage competitions require no protective headgear.

Though many mock the Parellis on this board, I have studied their methods and they do increase safety ( I still wear a helmet, every time I ride). One of the good things they say is if you are in doubt, get off the horse. Almost no other system adovcates that. They also have an excellent groundwork program to do before you get on. I would like to see them advocate more helmets, but I seroiusly doubt they had anyting to do with that letter, and again, I think you should remove this post, or at least ad that you have no verification they have anything to do with this letter.

[mbamissaz]

I emailed them to verify. I'll let you know if I get a response.

[redsoxluvr]

I just went on their website to see if there are any Parelli endorsed or approved helmets.

No safety gear, whatsoever. I will send an email too as I am curious.

[redsoxluvr]

Here is the text of my email - I will let you know if anyone replies.


Hello,


Please advise why the majority of your ads show riders without helmets. In particular, there are a few with a rider jumping a horse without any protective headgear. Please advise as to why you feel this to be a good advertisement for the Parelli system as it is clearly unsafe.



Regards,

RSL

[Quelah]

You know lux, you're right. I'm so disgusted with Parelli stuff in general I didn't even question it I'll see if I can backtrack it to the source.

ETA, yes kwitzi, if I can't confirm it I'll remove it. Mark is more than welcome to remove it, but I'll let it stand in the mean time because I do think their lack of emphasis on safety equipment is worth pointing out.

[rowdyredhead]

Whether or not the post is "Real" - they are rarely seen with a helmet.

If the Parelli's don't want helmet controversy around them, they can start wearing them!!!!!!!!!!!

I've always assumed it was becuase their whole program is predicated on the belief that you can make horses safe for idiots with a carrot stick and special halter. You can do other things too, but they to me claim to take the unpredictability out of horses with their program.

If you don't wear a helmet, you don't, but my BIGGEST pet peeve, I think of all time, is those who rationalize it by saying x horse or x gait or x activity is safe.

It's not.

Of course, one can get injured feeding, grooming, petting, etc...I don't always wear my helmet in those cases but I would NEVER say it's becuase it's "safe" (shoot me if I do) - it's a habit, learned over years. I now wear one more often when grooming, etc, but not when going to interact in the pasture and with more than one horse -well, anything can happen with one and with more than one you just dont know when herd dynamics will take over.

[rowdyredhead]

Zena'sgirl: Just saw your post. Touche!!!!

[RebelsHope]

I'm with luxuria with this one. Anyone care to try writing them personally and see what comes back? This smells fishy, like someone is trying to stir the waters. If I'm wrong, then I'm on the same bandwagon.

I agree. I have a hard time believing that a professional would write something actually saying that they did not believe in wearing helmets.

Doubt it's on snopes though.

This was my first thought too . . . .

Many if not most Western professionals don't wear helmets

That pretty much common knowledge, but I have never heard one of them suggest that you should not wear one. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[kwitzi]

I have a bunch of Parelli tapes and material, and they never claim their system makes a horse safe, or riding safe, just that it gives riders tools for dealing with the nature of horses, and that makes it "Safer". Unbelievable how people who never even study or read their material just put lies out there.

Again, I'd like to see them wear and adovcate helmets, but the dressage community is one of the worst aka no helmets worn by most professionals and students, and never even discussed in articles, magazines etc, like the problem does not exist with dressage horses ( some of which are horribly behaved when out of the ring, or even in it, at major shows I see bolting, buckcing and spooking in and out of the warmup ring) .

[Boocoo]

If they truly did write the letter, it is typical Parelli Arrogance that we have all come to know and love!

I will be interested in reading their reply to Redsox!!!

[gwenevere]

There are healthcare professionals that don't buckle their seatbelt when driving, they feel it's not safe (I work with one).

My young, bucking, monster of a horse was started by a professional that didn't wear a helmet. When I asked him about it he said he felt that helmets were dangerous. They did more harm then good.

The facts remain that there are people out there that really believe those things...

[silverhorse]

I'm skeptical by nature. And when something seems too nutso to be true, I'm not so quick to jump in to believe it.

I'd sure like a verified source on this.

It's either totally insane or....an evil internet rumor.

Honestly, it smells like the latter. Doubt it's on snopes though.

I have heard the exact same thing from my friend who is spending the summer at the Parelli ranch. Her take was something about left-brain/right-brain, and never getting on until the horse was in the correct brain. (She wasn't really buying it either...)

And I am sure that there already HAVE been TBIs of their followers... but nobody collects data on the training method used when someone goes into the er...

[RebelsHope]

Ironically a friend just sent me a link to Fugly horse of the day blog on this very topic: http://www.fuglyblog.com/2009/well-i-guess-they-are-safer-if-you-never-actually-get-on-them/

[evasandor]

I also think it's highly suspicious for a marketing genius organization like the Parelli Borg to advocate such a liability-potential position. Might be a hoax. Buuuutt....

Do they wear *anything* on their heads? I mean, do they wear cowboy hats?Having met lots of Western riders who don't wear anything but, I have developed a theory that a good, stiff felt cowboy hat is a primitive helmet. At least for falls where the head lands sideways to the ground--the brim would seem to provide a 6" or so crush zone (provided the dang thing stays on....).

Personally I always wear my very pretty pink embroidered Troxel, but a cowboy hat is probably better than nothing.

[orono]

If it's true, it's the dumbest thing I've ever read. | am back to wearing a helmet after a long hiatus, so I don't think the ludicrousness is in the choosing not to wear a helmet, but in the advocating of not wearing one to their uneducated (& non horsey!) masses. I suspect that the letter would be offensive to non helmet wearers as well! To say that their horses are completely safe is the biggest bunch of crap yet. EVEN if their horses are 'spookproof', and the rider had IMPECCABLE balance (neither is the case based on what I've seen IRL), ANY horse can stumble, or have a medical crisis (ie heart attack etc). I know these are obscure, but to insult the rest of the riding world is really too much. It could be a hoax, but I don't doubt that they would agree with what was written. I look forward to the update.

[White Sapphire]

and what is a photonic therapy torch? Are they selling those, too?

Of course
http://www.parelli.com/product.faces?productId=222

There is a link to another website where you can buy it from the manufacturer. If you go to their contact page it lists Parelli as the only dealer/distributer.

The vet I know in Shawnee, OK worked with McLaren and he sells/pushes the torch. McLaren's office use to be in OKC. Go to this site:http://www.mclarenusainc.com/distributors.htm and become a dealer too! We bought one of these years ago and I was so disappointed, supposed to have help whenever you ask. They totally blew me off the only times I asked for help. I know some personal stuff about McLaren but don't think I should be posting it on here.

[Monica W]

I also think it's highly suspicious for a marketing genius organization like the Parelli Borg to advocate such a liability-potential position. Might be a hoax. Buuuutt....

Do they wear *anything* on their heads? I mean, do they wear cowboy hats?Having met lots of Western riders who don't wear anything but, I have developed a theory that a good, stiff felt cowboy hat is a primitive helmet. At least for falls where the head lands sideways to the ground--the brim would seem to provide a 6" or so crush zone (provided the dang thing stays on....).

Personally I always wear my very pretty pink embroidered Troxel, but a cowboy hat is probably better than nothing.

Better than nothing? Like the velvet hunt caps we all used to wear, that has a thin bit of plastic as the protection? And that usually flew off before the rider hit the ground?

No, I think that would be like saying a string accross your waist, instead of a seatbelt, would be better than nothing. Well, maybe - but only if Nothing else was available. Now that there is quality certified equipment, it is silly to settle for' better than nothing'.

AS far as the parellies saying you can make a horse safe enough to not require a helmet? Well, we never plan to fail, do we? A rider can fall from a horse from having heat exaustion - I know of two women who had that. One wound up in the hospital having brain surgery to reduce the swelling and pressure, the other had a severe concussion, but nothing more. Guess which one was wearing a helmet. mw

[kwitzi]

Troxel makes a helmet with a western hat cover so it looks like a western hat.

[Petra]

There is no end to human stupidity

[orono]

Reminds me of a friend who sent around pics of her 3-4year old riding one of the families horses without a helmet. I mentioned it and she said 'she didn't need one, she was only walking'. HELLO!! It isn't needed for the walking part, it's for the something-went-awry falling part. Stuff happens, endangering yourself is one thing, but preventing others from chosing to wear protective equipment is totally unethical.

btw, I have seen parelliites wear helmets when mounted.

[M'al]

Here is a *great* article by a western horseman advocating helmets:

http://horsecity.com/stories/091409/lif_helmet.shtml

I know nothing about him other than this article, but kudos to him for walking the walk.

(Edited to correct link)